Passing The Torch
Passing The Torch is a podcast that explores the inspiring stories and insights from people across all walks of life. The main focus is on the positive aspects of leadership, resilience, and character development.
Passing The Torch
Ep. 46: Nurturing Talent and Embracing Diversity for Future Success with Trevion Jones
Have you ever pondered the makings of a future military general or what it takes to sculpt the raw potential of the leaders of tomorrow? Trevion Jones, a titan in the military industry, joins us to unpack the complex world of talent management. From his hands-on experience with "I Could Be," mentoring high school students online, to guiding seasoned military personnel, Trevion's insights are a treasure trove for anyone looking to harness the true potential of their team. Not only do we delve into the art of nurturing talent, but we also dissect the broader implications of diversity in organizations, advocating for an inclusive approach that embraces all forms of authentic and non-traditional qualities essential for growth and success.
Throughout our conversation, I share stories from my early work experiences that mirror Trevion's philosophy on recognizing and fostering unique abilities. We navigate the intricacies of decision fatigue and its impact on leadership, drawing parallels from the realm of hip-hop to underline the influence of key personalities in any field. The exchange is peppered with anecdotes and shared wisdom, offering a look into the personal beliefs and strategies that have shaped both Trevion's and my own approach to leadership. This engaging dialogue will leave you with an appreciation for the art of asking potent, contextually relevant questions that are vital in evaluating talent and potential within individuals across various walks of life.
Wrapping up this enriching episode, we share a lighter side with personal stories that underscore the importance of building lifelong connections and the enduring value of friendships formed through professional encounters. We even playfully speculate on who might portray me in a biopic, drawing in a sprinkle of pop culture fun. Trevion leaves us on a powerful note, emphasizing the notion that we are precisely where we need to be – a mantra for anyone striving to carve their path in the world. So, tune in for an episode that not only offers a glimpse into the future of leadership but also reinforces the impact we can make by being true to ourselves and our course.
Connect with Passing The Torch: Facebook and IG: @torchmartin
More Amazing Stories:
Episode 41: Lee Ellis – Freeing You From Bond That Make You Insecure
Episode 49: Ryan Hawk – Crafting a Legacy of Leadership
Episode 52: Riley Tejcek – Mission of Empowerment and Endurance
A person is purely talented if they have the capability to bring out the hidden talent in another person. My guest on this episode of Passing the Torch is an effective leader and communicator, trust and mentor and qualified intelligence professional with over 10 years of recognized superior performance across a variety of positions working in the military industry. He has also experienced in advising executive leadership on strategic decisions, program management and leading diverse teams to success. Lastly, my guest is someone I met in August of 2022. Since that initial introduction, I continue to be amazed by his presence, attitude and overall drive to evolve whatever team he is assigned to. Without further ado, passing the Torch with Chevion Jones starts now. You have a great smile. Thank you, man. First and foremost, welcome to the show and thank you for joining me. This is awesome. I'm so excited.
Trevion Jones:Thank you for having me and thank you for that introduction. I greatly appreciate it.
Martin Foster:Yeah, I think I did everything right. Was that pretty good?
Trevion Jones:I mean it sounded good to me, so I will thumbs up on my end.
Martin Foster:No, I told you I stayed up till one in the morning researching you and I don't say that for sympathy, I say that just for how much you mean to me and the positive impact you've had on me and just a bit of context. I researched you on LinkedIn and so, if you get any notification, this is one anonymous search.
Trevion Jones:It's me.
Martin Foster:Perfect, perfect. I showed you my book earlier and I've wanted to have you on my show for quite a while now. Man, there's just something about you and I'm going to make a prediction that one day you're going to be a general, and when you are, I'm like I told you, I appreciate that. So that's the whole context of why I wanted you on. And again, there's just something very magnetic and like. I can't imagine anyone not liking you. But aside from that, I want to talk to you about talent management, because I think that's a conversation we had, I think last week or maybe two weeks ago, and then it was just like man, that's really interesting. But before we get into that, I have one random question. Sure Is, please discuss. I Could Be.
Trevion Jones:I Could Be is pretty much a digital mentoring platform.
Trevion Jones:So what it is is you go in, you build a profile as a mentor, you set up how many mentees you can accept and what that does is that connects you with students, usually an underprivileged or disenfranchised communities for you to just kind of work through their personal goals and what things that they want to get involved with either a part of a particular program at their school or what they want to do post high school.
Trevion Jones:So it was a cool opportunity. You don't have face-to-face opportunities because these are high school students typically, but getting to hear what thoughts, perspectives or what dreams a person under the age of 18, typically that high school range might have for themselves or where they see themselves in the world, was very, very important to me and why I decided to step into that particular mentorship program. So I've had a lot of successes in terms of connecting with young, brilliant individuals and just like the personal satisfaction of how do I become a better mentor to these folks? Right, it's easy, just in my line of work, to say, hey, I can mentor this type of person, whether it's an enlisted person, a junior officer, et cetera but to work with a whole different ballpark of individuals. It was definitely a good challenge that I'm happy to be part of.
Martin Foster:That's very interesting to me, because how old were the kids again, so they're typically high school range.
Martin Foster:Right. So you know 16, 17, 18, and, like most kids around that age, like there's a lot of potential, but it's a lot of raw potential. What did you learn about talent management or how to evaluate talent? Because it's easy for us to evaluate talent now, I think, in the military, or at least there's something to go off Absolutely, but back then I mean that's literally as raw as it can get. But yeah, what's something that you learned that you didn't expect to learn with regard to talent management?
Trevion Jones:I think that's and it's probably what led to our conversation last week and just kind of where my mind has been, especially as I've progressed right in my own personal career. Like you said, 16, 17 is a very raw age to kind of understand what you bring, and I say what you bring being the attributes, what things you're naturally good at, what are the innate abilities that you're going to provide to whatever situation. So I think, being able to communicate as a mentor, how to acknowledge, how to support and how to help that individual kind of discover those things, because I mean, we were all in their shoes, right. When I look back at my time being 16, 17, I was working part-time job. I've been working since I was 15 and a half. So my mom likes to joke that I've never been unemployed, not going to wit, but I've been working since I was 16 and a half.
Trevion Jones:I had my own personal interest, being part of JROTC, obviously school and so you know the things that you have interesting, you know the things that people might gravitate towards, but you usually can't put that into perspective for yourself, especially at that age. So to be able to do that and learn how to communicate that from my perspective or how to cultivate. That, from my perspective, is probably the biggest thing I learned. Again, in the setting that we're in being in the military. It's easy to tie that to a specific task or a specific experience you've given them. So, with individuals you've never met or never going to meet in person, and just kind of seeing it all through a digital platform, ie words on a screen, it's a little bit more of a what am I reading between the lines? Where does this person really see themselves? What questions do I ask, to kind of pull that thread out of them. So I'll say that's probably the biggest lesson I learned by partaking in. I Could Be program.
Martin Foster:I want to tie that into your education background. Yeah, I think there's a common thread between your stuff with I Could Be, you know, identifying. There's a lot of lessons learned from that time, right, but you have a master's in organizational leadership, a bachelor's in psychology, and so you're probably like, oh my God, no, it works. By the way, before I forget, did you ever meet Kawhi Leonard?
Trevion Jones:I'm not.
Martin Foster:Because he went to San Diego State the same time as you.
Trevion Jones:I'm not. I was a terrible student. I was trying to focus and be involved in ROTC. I know I just saw him graduating the same year or whatever at the same time.
Martin Foster:That's not a hearing or there, but again master's in organizational leadership, bachelor's in psychology. How can talent management affect organizational change and promote growth and others to achieve common goals?
Trevion Jones:I think, when I look in talent management and I look at your question of how does it help people kind of achieve organizational goals, is people have to see what their purpose is in the workplace. People can come, get a paycheck and just kind of produce the widget, right, that's easy, absolutely. I can give you a solid paycheck just if you want to come and produce a widget. But for you to come into the place and be encouraged or supported to say, hey, you're bringing this specific attribute to this problem set, or I need you on my team because you're looking at it through this lens which may be a lens I'm not familiar with or a lens that I'm necessarily strong in myself that brings a new purpose, right, and that's where people can see themselves in the organization and that seeing themselves in the organization provides longevity to the organization. Right, because you're going to want to find a place where you can be your authentic self and I know authenticity is thrown around a lot nowadays, but it really does drive.
Trevion Jones:Do I feel like I belong in the organization that we're in? Right, being the Air Force, you can make the most of your experience, whether it's the four, eight, 10, 20 years that you're in, but that experience is yours. So how long you stay in, how far you will go, what connections you will have, the impact you will make really drives from you saying, hey, this is what I know, I am going to bring part of this big pot of smart brains and brilliant people, this is what I'm going to bring uniquely and this is how I'm going to apply that to whatever problem set you're getting after. So I say change can happen from those perspectives and saying hey, there's room for that conversation, there's room for that way of thinking, there's room for that way of action to build a path forward. So I think that's where my mind has gone when it comes to talent management excuse me, supporting different attributes of the diverse teams I've had and how I've seen some of the better change management processes take place in the organizations I've been in.
Martin Foster:No, and I want to explore a little bit deeper on that, because we talked about diverse teams and typically, when we say diverse, we're thinking like, hey, you know, we have to have certain races and like a mix of races and genders and ethnic ethnicities. But I always think, and that's, that's great, because people are going to have different mindsets and how they different feel or how they feel. But I always want to take it a step further. Right, so, aside from you know, race and gender, because those are attributes that people look for, right, when building diverse teams, how important? Or do you think people shy away from authenticity and I can't, maybe outliers or someone who's for lack of a better term and outcast? They're like you know what? They don't really fit them, they're not traditional in terms of going with the flow or yeah, but yeah, just yeah again, just to kind of summarize that Do you think people shy away from those attributes when they see, when building a team from people who are authentic and outliers or outcast? I?
Trevion Jones:can definitely see that right. I think a lot of pressure. Whatever rank, whatever uniform you're wearing, whether you're part of our civilian contractor or military personnel, there's a certain pressure to perform to that rank or a preconceived notion of what that title, role, rank, position should look like. I know when I was young and I tell my junior officer today I remember when I came in and I thought, hey, Lieutenant Jones has to perform like this because this is what a lieutenant should do and this is how a lieutenant should act, should be, etc. And to some degree there are going to be some standards right of what we expect of just folks within the service. But then there also comes a piece to say, well, I'm going to have this rank and I'm going to do good work and I'm going to have these certain roles. So I'm going to make whatever Lieutenant Captain Major Jones be is, whatever I'm going to bring to the table Right, because that's where I'm going to find success at, that's what's going to be natural to me.
Trevion Jones:So I think when I look at that and say, do those outliers fit in? I can absolutely see those outliers feeling like they don't have a place in. But then that comes the piece of mentorship that comes. Sponsors come into play. Someone's going to kind of look at them and say, hey, like you have something. I know you don't think that this is providing value to this, but this is where I can see this bringing success to the team, or this is that missing piece that we might not have, and I think that's why it's important to on both ends right, whether it's the junior person or the more senior person, to both come to a mutual agreement and say, hey, like I'm going to tap into those and I'm going to bring those into the spaces that you feel like they typically would not be accepted.
Martin Foster:In what patterns have you noticed in the successful talent you have ended up selecting? Or what patterns, if you were selected as part of like a high performing team, like hey, this is. I could see like we look different or may seem different, but I could see like why we're all in the.
Trevion Jones:I think a lot of it comes with the self awareness right. So that's good, I think, in the. So now I'm at a point where I'm leading small teams right To have large impacts, I have to be self aware of myself to kind of say, hey, these are things I'm bringing to his table. But to use myself as an example, I know I'm not a task person Like I can do small tasks, but I know that's just not where I'm comfortable. I can think big thoughts, I can have pine sky dreams, I can whiteboard all day, but I'm not the person to be able to sit down and work on the smaller task.
Trevion Jones:I'm not that that's a bad thing, but having the ability to have that self awareness and also look at, okay, who in the room does that, is that naturally coming to? Do I have someone in the room where we're able to just meld, mesh and meld minds and I'm able to have them kind of execute some of what I'm thinking right, or vice versa. Hey, ma'am, I know that you are very task oriented. I want to be your height man, I want to go out, I want to champion this, I want to take this the full 10 yards or a hundred yards right. I think, having that self awareness to say, okay, like what is missing in the room, what are the things I bring and what are the things that are going to compliment me or this team for us to find success I think that's what I've seen in successful teams is that perfect blend, or close to perfect blend, of the different skill sets that people are bringing to that fold?
Martin Foster:Who would be your?
Trevion Jones:height man. Who would be my height man? Oh, that's a great question.
Martin Foster:I have a recommendation in case you don't.
Trevion Jones:I would love to hear your recommendation.
Martin Foster:Mo love Absolutely. I like him a lot and he just cracks me up like he's, because he says what needs to be said and but it hits, it's like, and he's not shy about it, but it's one of the things no pun intended, because he's like six, seven, but I do look up to him Absolutely.
Trevion Jones:And I think I think it's funny that you bring up Mo love, because that's one of the folks who I look closely to as a mentor, right, I think?
Trevion Jones:Because you know, both of us our personalities are different, right, we just look at leadership very, not very differently, but differently in how we operate from. But to have Mo love, and what I'm very thankful for is I'm able to come to him and bounce off my ideas and able to kind of put a frame around some of the pine disguise ideas of like, hey, this isn't just going to be a large goal that's not obtainable, but you're able to give me that realistic perspective and be the hype person, say, ok, tj, this is what, how it can look, or what it can look like. I want to help support you but, like, let's put a frame around that so it can actually become an executable thing. So that just is a perfect case study, right? I don't know if it led to your next question of how that diverse train of thought can lead to success from a mentee perspective in my shoes to a mentor perspective.
Martin Foster:So same for me. I got the chance to know him over the past year before he left, and at some point he and I are going to do a podcast about. He has this thing about a topic called decision fatigue, oh yeah, and so that's going to be a good one, so I'm super excited. By the way, haley Hartstein would be mine. I feel like she.
Trevion Jones:That would be awesome. And it's funny you mentioned decision fatigue because I was a lesson made then major love taught young Captain Jones when I was exec at the group level. He taught me how to take care of my commander's time through, because decision fatigue is a thing. Right, I think we think to just throw a bunch of things on our bosses calendar and say you have to accomplish all these things, but we're human. So I'm very excited for that taping.
Martin Foster:I'm going to go back to your the last question and he talked about like, hey, recognizing I'm not good at this or I'm not, you know, I'm good at it, I'm. You know it's not my strongest suit, right, and I'm best here, so I need to put my energy and focus here. Let's pick someone who's ideal for this role but we do all have, whether it's an unconscious bias or whatever. But what's what's an example of when your personal grip has been a bit too tight around your own beliefs.
Trevion Jones:Oh, that's a great question.
Martin Foster:Thanks, by the way, like I, that was a 1245 question.
Trevion Jones:Personal grip around my own beliefs.
Trevion Jones:I would say, probably the times where I feel crunch for time and I feel like I I'm not making this space or the room for people to offer their insight, and I feel like, hey, this is the idea of where we need to go and we're just going to execute.
Trevion Jones:And I understand, as a leader, sometimes that's pertinent and that's necessary, but I, in a normal situation, I should understand, hey, I'm not getting all the information, so why am I not taking the step back and saying like, hey, I need to actually console other people and say let's execute this. That's where I would probably say what comes to mind when I think of like my own personal grip around my beliefs, whether it is if I feel like I've already come to the decision from an emotional standpoint or from an information standpoint and that I don't need other avenues or other injects into that, which obviously you can probably imagine what the result that came to right. Or even if it was excess, there were the secondary and tertiary effects that aren't things that I would have today version me would have said, yeah, this is how I would have wanted that to go. I have a great interviewer.
Martin Foster:No, again I was joking around about. I say I research you. That's the professional way of saying I stalked you these days. I was researching for my podcast. It's like wife is like what are you doing? Like at two o'clock in the morning, like here's this random picture, right Exactly.
Martin Foster:When you said talent management, like that, just I knew I've wanted to have you in my podcast but I couldn't quite find like there's so many things I want to talk about and in my mind I think TJ, right. But I was like I want to talk to the TJ about this, that, but there's so many different things. But when you said talent management, I was like that's it right there. I was like to me you're someone I'd want on the team because you're like if there's a room full of 100 people, you're one of those 10. That's a key stakeholder or a key influencer, right. Like people are going to follow, so I love that. So that's why I was like when you said talent management, and then when I saw that your education background and then your volunteer mentorship background, I'm like oh man, this stuff is flowing.
Trevion Jones:It's like Dr Dre just writing down the lyrics and stuff. That's a perfect and timely happy 50 years to hip hop.
Martin Foster:Is it really? Yeah, it is, it is man, because it's still. It doesn't seem like it's 50 years.
Trevion Jones:Exactly Because music is timeless.
Martin Foster:That's great. Yeah, you're right, maybe talent management is timeless, but I, you know, listening to all that stuff. We were talking beforehand about what I listened to in the 90s growing up and it was still fresh, and we're not here to talk about my music preference or my failed boy bands. That's dreams. So something I heard in a podcast earlier this year and I've had, and I started saying it in some staff meetings and I know we're in a lot of meetings together, so maybe you heard me say this, but you know I'm always talking about the importance of critical thinking and the significance of like that should be part of when we say culture, like hey, we need to build a culture, and like critical thinking has to be a part of that.
Martin Foster:Part of the good thinking is how we think and ask questions.
Martin Foster:So, specifically earlier this year in another podcast that I listened to and it was a podcast about finances, but it was something that stuck with me but he said the quality of our lives depends so much on the questions that we ask right and more than that, not just the quality of the questions.
Martin Foster:Like you have to ask the right question to the right person at the right time in the right order, because you can have great questions, but if it's not pertinent to the subject or in the context, or no one asked that follow-up question how to ask a question? Sometimes people blurt out questions in a random meeting and I'm like cool, that's a great question, it has nothing to do, like there's a whole separate meeting on Thursday for that. But what's one high signal question that you have found particularly useful when trying to determine the quality of anyone, from a salesperson to an athlete or as just as generic things, right? But yeah, what's one high quality question when you're evaluating someone like that, you like to ask and for me just to kind of show you my example what leads to your happiest times and best performance at work. What's something that you found like your go-to?
Trevion Jones:I think typically and it's an interesting question I don't know if it's my high level questions, I'll probably have to get back to you on this but in my feedbacks that I have and I've done this for a couple of years I asked my team like describe to me your perfect Saturday If you had nothing on your calendar and you were able to just spend time from 8 am to 8 pm. Like, what would you do? Cause I think that gets into the person of where they spend their time. What things do they prioritize? How do they look at life, the pace at which they operate, right, cause if someone has a GMPAC schedule in that day, they're probably gonna be a fast-paced person. But if someone likes leisure, or if someone likes to sit and read or relax or take in the day, they're probably gonna operate at slower pace. And for me as a leader, that kind of that helps me understand how I should engage with them, how I should approach them right.
Trevion Jones:I know, just because of my energy I can come very big, but if you're a person who likes a slower pace or you like to relax or leisure, you probably don't want that high-level 10 energy coming to you with a question. So I have to meet you at a different place and I think the responses I've gotten to that has been fairly interesting, because we don't ever sit and think about what we would do with just a free day. I know we typically say, hey, I'm happy that we get Friday off. Okay, here are all the tasks I have to do, here are all the things I have to catch up on. But like if no one gave you any sort of calendar or plans for that day, how would you spend that time throughout the day? I think has been probably the high-level question, at least from my level, that found the most interesting.
Martin Foster:Following up with your going back to your education background, your experiences in the military, and then absent the systems and the frameworks you have honed over time. What has made you a good talent hunter and a talent evaluator at such a young age and you are young, I know how old you are More than that you look younger than you are. Thank you, you look like you're in grad school at Southern New Hampshire.
Trevion Jones:This is You've done your research.
Martin Foster:I love it. I love it.
Trevion Jones:Yes and H-U, I was saying I'm still developing it, right, I'm still developing the teams and I think the and I say I'm still developing it because I feel like you move into a phase where you're good at identifying the talent, but then it forces you to grow as a leader, officer, mentor of how do you continue to cultivate that talent? Right, because the skills that work for our captain Jones are not what works for major Jones. So how do I continue? Okay, I'm bringing in this good talent. How do I give them feedback? How do I continue to support that in a more elevated way? So I would say I'm still developing it.
Trevion Jones:I would say a lot of my mentors that I've gotten through life and just through my career have really encouraged a lot of that within myself, and I think that's why I've taken such a like, I guess, love for it in terms of, hey, your first line supervisor right from my officers, which is me, the major, is not giving me feedback or not giving you like that mentorship. I'm not worth my salt, right? It's nice to have the squadron commander be able to provide that as well, but if you're a captain, you're not gonna be a lieutenant colonel for quite some time. The first boat you're gonna hit is being a major and being a DO. So how do I give you feedback from my perspective? Introduce you to the spaces I'm in so you have that exposure and that understanding and that's why I've gotten throughout my career and through my life so it's kind of like the payback is why I feel like I'm good at understanding that talent, but also that I want to continue to develop that as I bring these highly talented individuals within my circle.
Martin Foster:Okay, so you just mentioned about bringing highly talented people within your circle, and what ways have others helped you surface your hidden assumptions and what's your advice on how a coach or a leader can do the same for other people?
Trevion Jones:Offering that transparency right. So I have made my office, the people's office, essentially right.
Martin Foster:So a lot of the picture of the rock in there Exactly exactly Nice reference.
Trevion Jones:A lot of people will say they have an open door policy. Sure right, especially when you move into, like a professional setting, that open door policy may not always be what you want it to be Before. At least the folks I directly supervise, right, and even a layer below that is coming to my office and we can talk about anything. I also give the transparency to the fact of I'm not tied to it. Obviously, if it's a concept or idea that must be executed absolutely, but I'm not tied to anything. I'm always open to feedback and if you want to come in the office and, behind closed doors, say, hey, sorry, I don't think we're moving in the right direction. I don't think this is applicable because of X, y and Z, we can absolutely have that conversation and I think more people, at least in some of the spaces, right, that you had mentioned, have to be open to that, to saying, hey, your idea is just not the greatest idea for where we're at in time right now. Hopefully you're doing that research as a leader, but you have to be open to hearing hey, sir, hey, ma'am, like this is just not where we're going, this is not where we're at or the people are not moving in this mindset. Maybe we need to communicate more, build more foundational elements for them to operate in, or just take a step back and say, okay, let me put this on the back burner and pass it on to someone else.
Trevion Jones:I was listening to a podcast a couple days ago and the advice that the individual I gave into the students in the room was hey, just as much as you want a mentor or senior leader's attention, they want your attention. So I speak now, even though I'm fairly young. I speak to the folks that I lead because they're typically younger than myself, like I also want to learn from them. So I don't want it to feel like, hey, major Jones's thought is the only thought, or that's the thought that we're all present for with. I want to hear your feedback and I want to have that transparency to say, okay, I'm looking at it through a different lens or through a different perspective.
Martin Foster:What's the name of the podcast?
Trevion Jones:So it was actually Rethinking by Adam Grant. So he, yeah, yeah, yeah. So he interviewed Carla Harris, who is vice chairman of Morgan Stanley. I think she might've moved from that position, but their interview was from a live session they had at the Wharton School of Business, so you can find it on YouTube as well. But that was just kind of one of her elements of like hey, like when you're looking at mentorship, sponsorship, which is the theme of that particular episode, she was like as much as you want their attention, they want your attention because they want you part of their team. Being senior leaders to junior leaders, they want you part of their team. They want your ideas, they want your loyalty right to the concept, to the organization. So that works in a mutual way.
Martin Foster:That's a fantastic point, because I never thought I was. You know, we thought we think about two way mentorship and like, hey, mentorship is two ways. But to actually be more specific, like that's it right there, like we do want people's attention because it's how we can help better serve people. That's a great point. I have to check that out. I have one last serious question.
Trevion Jones:I'm getting some fun questions Okay.
Martin Foster:I think you know you've been in for 10 plus years. But sometimes it's not so much People look at I see this a lot of when people hit a certain rank you know, especially like senior and COs or maybe some high officer ranks they lead with, like their, how long they've been in, right, like that's what makes them qualified. Sure, in some cases I don't think just how long someone's been in automatically gives them experiences. It just gives them to have had more opportunities to have experiences, right. So when people are like I've been in for 20 years, cool, you get to experience nothing during that time, but you know you've been in for, you know, 10 years or 10 plus. But I think just from talking we know a lot of the same people and I mean you've been around some talent right and some cool missions and everything, but what do you think is the difference between successful individuals, teams and larger organizations?
Martin Foster:Oh, great question.
Trevion Jones:I'll say successful individuals. Is that self-awareness right? So I bring that back to self-awareness understanding what you bring to the table, because then you can come to your authentic self. For teams, it's cultivating all of that diversity and, like you say, it doesn't have to be race, gender, it's diversity of thought, it's diversity of perspective and diversity of just experience. Like you said, someone could have been in 20 years and they might not have experienced everything that could have happened where I could have an airman who has been in for four years, deployed three times, worked in this special unit 100% and they're going to bring a whole different perspective.
Trevion Jones:So that should not exclude them just based off rank or age from the table. And then for the team, it's really the culture, right, like what is the culture that you're trying to cultivate? What is the brand and I appreciate that's kind of where our organization is right now is what is the brand that we're trying to push out? And people look at brand as a negative thing, right, but I appreciate the concept of brand and marketing, your marketing yourself coming into our individual lives, but also just our organization lives. Like for me to say, hey, I was part of this particular team. You can probably think of certain organizations within the Air Force where you're like that's a pretty elite team, but for me to look at myself and say I was part of this organization, that's huge. And for people to think, oh well, that's a highly regarded organization, this is the quality of work, the caliber of people that they hire onto the team and you were a leader within that organization, that's a huge thing. So, individuals, the self awareness team is cultivating the different concepts, ideas and perspectives that are brought through that self awareness and then the organization is a culture and building that brand and that brand should translate to the individual brands. But also, what is the organization as a brand want to put out there?
Trevion Jones:I think again, when you look at like the public sector and where people are looking for jobs right, we joined the Air Force because of a certain brand that it has and people may make a lot of that oh, it's the chair force, or whatever the case may be.
Trevion Jones:But there are certain reasons why we joined the Air Force. There are certain attributes that come to mind when people say the Air Force over the other services and just like our other brothers and sisters and arms whenever, whichever branch you're in. But when you look outside, in the public sector, there's a reason why people want to work at Apple. There's a reason why people want to work at Google, why they want to work at Starbucks, because they have brands and they know if I'm part of that, this is what I'm doing, this is what I'm getting after, and that translates because they can say my personal brand fits into that organizational brand and in between there's a culture and cultivation of what I'm going to bring to the table that can fit into that larger puzzle. So that's what I will offer to that.
Martin Foster:Oh, that's good. Yeah, I'm very much about branding and all that stuff and Michelle Mars and I talk about communication's major, but you know, communications marketing, to me it all kind of blends together.
Trevion Jones:It does. Harvard Business Review did a really good article I think it was last month or the previous month that covers the self branding and it was really thought out and just a good read. So if you have some time, check it out.
Martin Foster:All right, I have some miscellaneous questions. There's no rhyme or reason.
Trevion Jones:These are all over the place. Oh gosh, all right Questions. Are you ready?
Martin Foster:I'm ready. Are you nervous? Uh, I don't know. You should be, I should have asked at the beginning like hey, have you done a podcast before I've not that's so crazy, because I you know there's certain people I'm like you can just tell like we were talking about the real world earlier.
Trevion Jones:If you were on that show like you'd be the breakout star of Jersey Shore real world or road rolls or whatever. But Wait, mtv was good, right, yeah, but there's certain people with personalities.
Martin Foster:You know I've mentioned hard scene a couple of times even Mo Love and some other people but I'm surprised. I suspect that you will now be a frequent guest. I appreciate it All right, these are just random. This may be a laugh and I was kind of giddy at like 1230 or whatever. What is something people would be surprised to learn?
Trevion Jones:about you. Oh, I don't know if I should put this, I guess so when I was young I guess it leaves my personality when I was young there was a PBS show it was called like bloopy and it was like a kids like exercise show. Anyways, my mom put me on that when I was young. So there's like a couple episodes, I think, out there in the world where you can see a smaller version of me on the show. So that's probably what people would be surprised. I don't know if people would be surprised, but yeah, you don't have to search it, but I'm going to.
Martin Foster:We'll see what happens. What's it called again?
Trevion Jones:Bloopy, bloopy. Yeah, it's very kid puppy like.
Martin Foster:Thank you for sharing that. That's, that's goals.
Trevion Jones:I don't know what I just signed myself up for, but it's out there now.
Martin Foster:If you were to host a dinner party with five guests, past or present, who would you invite and why?
Trevion Jones:And it can't be family members, oh, that's a great question, a problem by a couple of presidents to that table. At least have two seats for presidents.
Martin Foster:I'll count presidents as one.
Trevion Jones:Okay, but who are?
Martin Foster:the two or three.
Trevion Jones:Oh, probably more recent presidents, right? So probably President Obama. President Bush, I'd just like to hear, right like, how you think about you have the highest office in the land. What are the decisions you go through? How do you pick things up? How do you?
Martin Foster:That's great because to me, I love the fact that they what appears to be a good relationship to the public and I think that's so important because two opposite ends of the political parties or whatever. But you know, we see the stuff with Michelle like George Bush flirting with, but I think, whether you know who knows that they truly hate it, whatever. But I think it's so important just for people to see, whereas, like there's some banter and all that stuff. You know, and I've heard President Bush like I saw like maybe in 2008 or something, 2009, I guess it had been 2009. Shortly after Obama took office, where it was a news clip, but like Obama walked in and like Bush stood like upright and stuff, hey, mr, like I just thought that was so good. Yeah, anyway, I think there's a lesson there to be taught.
Martin Foster:It is humility and ego, and sorry we're going on a rabbit hole, but all right, bush and Obama count is one.
Trevion Jones:Probably Oprah. I feel like everyone wants Oprah right.
Martin Foster:Because she wanted to pay for dinner A little bit right.
Trevion Jones:But when you think about a person who started in journalism right, and just the height of her breakout into journalism and getting a syndicated show that's been on TV for years and just building an empire from that right, try and think of what else. In a brand, in a brand, right, bob Iger, who's the CEO of Disney. So his book, what is it called? It is the cover of his coming to mind, but he writes not a autobiography, but it's something along those lines. I mean it starts off with the shooting, the Pulse Club shooting, and he was about to give a presentation and how the armed gunman was actually planning to go to Disneyland and partake in that accident. So it talks about his career from then to now and how he retired as CEO of Disney. Then he stepped away for a couple of years and they recently brought him back to lead the organization as they get a new CEO. So very fascinating but just different approach to how someone's journey can manifest through life. So I think that would be interesting conversation.
Trevion Jones:So that's three. Oh gosh, I'll probably have Michelle Obama, just for personal interest. And then who will be my fifth one? I will still have to think on the fifth one, but I will love to hear from, and I will say, a creative right Either an artist or a author. So many come to my right now, so that's why it takes some time for me to sit and think. But someone who is able to translate the world in the current state that it is, at the time that they are producing work, right. How do you translate that into words? How do you translate that into artwork? How do you, like your mind, look at that and say this is the paying, the emotion, the happiness the world is filling, and put that into words or through on a framework? Right? So many come to my side. I'll have to do a little bit of that list down, but I'll say at least have four solid. I'll take someone for you who.
Martin Foster:Malcolm Gladwell.
Trevion Jones:Oh yeah, okay.
Martin Foster:And then his. I've read two of his books, but Outliers is the one that is really, that's such a good one.
Martin Foster:Yeah, and it really helped me. I just read that, maybe three years or three years ago. Either way, it's helped me become think about things differently. All right, just wrapping up, what two to three books do you recommend, specifically Because we talked about talent management, but even talking about talent management, you used the word branding and self-awareness a couple of different times. So what two to three books regarding talent management, branding and self-awareness do you recommend or would you recommend to people?
Trevion Jones:I would say Outliers is a good one. I read that when I was a young officer, many, many years back, and that is a great one to always start with. I'm currently reading range, which is how generalists, how generalists exist and kind of like a specialized world. Right, because we're always taught, especially when you look at tired wisdom stuff hey, like, focus on this one thing, get really good at this one thing, but in reality we need a broad range of skills to look at a problem differently. And then what would my third one be? There is another one that I read.
Trevion Jones:It is how to connect in a digital world, and I don't know if it falls within the talent management branding perspective, but it is. I'll get the author, but it's pretty much. We're moving in a digital space, right, whether it's how we communicate via email or teams or Zoom, but it's how to connect via that means. And I think when we talk about that talent management piece, right, like it's through connection, people are able to see who you are and what you bring. Through that connection, and because our world is moving digitally and we look at Gen Z and understanding how they view the world, which is probably going to be through a digital platform. I think it takes a lot from me as a leader to kind of understand that and how to do better and kind of sharpen that iron from my end.
Martin Foster:I have a couple bonus questions. Sure, let's go, and I think you'll enjoy this. Okay, what are some new friendships you developed over the past two to three years that you know are going to be a lifelong bond?
Trevion Jones:Oh, that's a great one. I will definitely say so. I have a couple of peers right now and it's partly right coming just through the job. But then I think when you work day to day with some of these people and you have that ability to look at like, hey, this organization, how are you doing? And checking in beyond the job, so can I call out a specific name? Yes, oh, so, yeah. Well, I mean, I knew Shwe from forever ago, but definitely Vader and then Louis Ho, like good friends. I'll probably carry on.
Trevion Jones:I think my original like DO team right coming in, will probably be friends at last. Beyond. I would say I have been very blessed and fortunate because this is two or three years Very blessed and fortunate to have just really good supervisors, and it's really good supervisors in the sense of, I guess, to frame it right, like feedback sessions. Feedback sessions can be very like generic, right. Let me just jot out some notes and paper, but both my previous and current supervisor have both just been fantastic in the let's sit down, let's just like talk about live and let's talk about who you are as a human and kind of accepting my whole being outside, of just being like their DO. Those are friendships that I hope and I think will last, probably beyond.
Trevion Jones:And then there is one for my previous assignment. There was a captain I worked with he's out now Kekei Noaheva, and so we joined the team right. So we're being an ROTC. We're a small team, so it's typically three officers and two enlisted personnel. So him and I are like the action officers essentially and like he was younger than me because I had rank and just like different experience to me, grew up in Hawaii, went to the academy, works in finance and then I, obviously like different places, grew up in San Diego.
Trevion Jones:But just like the connection and the bond that we were able to build in the two years of knowing each other and like we think about the first year of that was primarily over zoom because covid, but then coming together and just kind of like being tied at the hip and and the cadets actually make fun of it, because I was like, oh, if we see major channels, we're going to see Captain Noaheva as well, and so we got they got a shirt. When am I going away? That says thing one and thing two, but it's while kind of connecting with him nowadays and even though he's out now, and just kind of seeing how happy is and just like the different avenues he's pursuing. But that's a relationship that I really cherish because it's not even someone who was like same rank, same age. Parallel is someone who's younger than me, but just like the ability of like a natural easiness, that kind of came with that relationship.
Martin Foster:That's awesome.
Trevion Jones:So I would say those are probably the relationships in the two to three years timeframe that are probably and hopefully going to be lifelong relationships.
Martin Foster:And I just started asking that and because I've developed a couple over the past two years. I love that question and it's just something I'm going to keep asking and podcast.
Trevion Jones:No, it's a great one.
Martin Foster:Yeah, thanks for that. Thanks for that feedback.
Trevion Jones:Yeah, and it just, and sometimes you just know, like you just hit it off with someone. Yeah, yeah, this is my person. Yeah, and there's many people like that are on that list that I did or that I didn't mention. So I hope no one like listen.
Martin Foster:That's why I say the past three years, right, it's got to be cut off right, because there's even some people I had to cut out of my, cut out of my life that need to think like, oh man, now I don't have any, but it also makes room for new people.
Trevion Jones:Yes.
Martin Foster:It's like you know what, I was friends with that person. That was the old chapter of my life and we're still acquaintances, but it's not. You know, I'm going in a different direction now.
Trevion Jones:And I think I think that's important. So I love it to say that, right like I think what I've gotten older, as I've gotten older people always think like for friendships to and it has to be a huge event like no. People just like grow differently or they have different priorities or different focus items. So everything doesn't have to be a huge catastrophe as to why we fall out. It's just I'm just in a different path in my life, or a different chapter, and I have, like you said, open up the door for different people to kind of come in.
Martin Foster:And there's even some other friends that my friendships, like people I was, you know, always been friends with, but the bond is even I've known for a long time. It's growing even stronger because, you know, I like having conversations now about hey, like what's a cool business we can do or what's a cool, you know, and you know? Or what if we were, if we could run a business on a Saturday?
Martin Foster:oh, yeah, like hey, like what's talking, like how cool, like what are some cool. Let's talk investing or real estate, or you know where do you want to travel to next and stuff like that. Do you know Brianna McQueen by chance yes, or formerly Applebee.
Martin Foster:Yeah, she's got a very sad I don't look McQueen, so she's one of my favorite people on on on earth, but she's someone I have like I will fight someone for her, like she's. She's incredible. She's another person I can't imagine anyone not liking. She's just such an incredible human being. So I was a flight chief in Hawaii and she was the sister flight commander yeah but her and I just and this is in like 2016 but her to this day.
Martin Foster:It's been a while since I've talked to her, but but anyway, like every time I talk to her, we'll. We'll talk for like two hours not necessarily about work, but like, hey, what's a cool opportunity because she was doing something at the White House and then. But we talk about traveling and food and it's just.
Trevion Jones:I think that's great because, like you said, it's coming back together and being able to connect right, even if you have that gap in time where you're communicating. Yeah, it's just like we come back together and it's like all the times we can just engage and laugh and like talk about life food center or it was a focus of art.
Martin Foster:Your nice early conversations and yep I guess I, like last year, we're talking about restaurants and stuff yes, sitting at the eye table that's right. Last two questions okay, if there was a movie made about your life, oh, I would play, you don't worry, I have a recommendation. And what would the name of your movie be?
Trevion Jones:oh gosh, okay, I have no idea. I feel like I'm gonna glamour, like over glamourized this. I'll give the flowers like Michael be Jordan, right, because it could play like a just beefier, like more, I guess, attractive version myself. You know what I mean. And then I've been watching snowfall lately and was it Damon Idris who plays the titular care or not titular, because it's not bad, but the lead character? He will probably be my other person who will play me so that shows on my must.
Martin Foster:Like it, I've walked, I'll watch soon it's a good friends who are into it, but that's great. You said Michael be Jordan.
Trevion Jones:That's someone else in mind who did you have a mind?
Martin Foster:but it tight. It's funny because it ties up on, it links on to I swear I had this. It ties in on to two fronts, so one of my favorite actors is Idris Alba and he was on the wire with.
Trevion Jones:Michael be, yes, obviously, Idris, right, yeah, I don't know.
Martin Foster:I distinct and I hope he becomes like a future James Bond. Like to me, he's obvious choice. That is like the goal British and there's this whole thing like we can't like. Who cares if they like? I don't care if James Bond is blacked but yeah, they got to be British or yes, but he would be phenomenal, I think.
Martin Foster:Last question if there was a giant billboard with your picture on it and your message on it for the world to see, where would you want that billboard to be anywhere in the world and what would you want that message to say? For and everyone has to read it oh, that that is a solid question.
Trevion Jones:It will definitely be something along the lines of like you're at where you need to be or something along the lines of that, right like you're exactly where you need to be. Because I feel like people need that reminder sometimes of like either putting too much pressure on themselves or like, oh, I'm trying to do this and I just don't feel like I'm getting there, and it's like, no, you're where you need to be, like you're on the path, you're doing what, what needs to get done where would be a great question. I don't know why. The first, first thought that comes to my mind is probably like, probably near university or something like that, right near university or just an institute of like learning, and that could be a trade school, whatever the case may be. Because I feel like when people usually take those opportunities to learn a trade, to go to university, a community college because I'm a byproduct of community college or just school in general, right to like further themselves no mirror.
Trevion Jones:Mesa, you're close, you're close. I feel like that's just like, hey, like you're at where you need to be, like you're doing the right thing, take your time, get to where you need to go. Your chapter, like it's your book, you, you make your book like a story that you are proud of. There's no report card for like what success is right. So so you kind of define what that report card is right, like, and I know you can probably resonate with this chief right, like as you're getting to like that closer to retirement point, even me being what seven this year's from that retirement point at the end of the day, right, we got, we've gotten the award.
Trevion Jones:So kind of accolades, you've won the quarterlies, angles, whatever, it's case to me. But like, whatever success is, it's not going to be like oh, like you won chief of the quarter, it's going to be truly what your legacy is through here or just through the people you've encountered right, so that's probably your report, report card from me, knowing you, and so that's what success looks like. So, yeah, that would be like my, my, my give in. Yeah, I was like hopefully I can close with like a good one. I appreciate it. No, I appreciate it.
Martin Foster:I appreciate you. Thank you so much for being a guest in my podcast. As you know, I mentioned a couple times before I end during the show, like you've, you've been on my guest list, so those good, just like it's so good to check that off, right thank you. I wanted to have this conversation with you because you bring so much to the table and it is not just like one thing, like you bring you know if this is Thanksgiving, like you're bringing like three dishes that are all on point, right. So I appreciate that yeah.
Martin Foster:So just thanks for who you are, like I'm proud to serve with you and I'm proud who you are. It's like a young leader and like I want to follow you, I want to be around you, I want to hear what you have to say and I know I'm not alone in this. I'm. I know there are many out, many others out there as well. Like you, I don't know like there's just, there's a, there's a lot of like shining stars, but yours has like this, like this different, brighter tent. That's just like who's like, who's that guy you know. Like you know, like I mean I like the way he presents himself in meetings and stuff. So again, this is, this is an honor.
Trevion Jones:Thank you so much no, it was my pleasure. Thank you for having me yeah, of course thank you that concludes another episode of passing the torch.
Martin Foster:Big thanks to my guest, trevian Jones. If this is your first time listening to my show, here's a quick bio about me. I am active duty military and have served for 21 years. I started this podcast in January of 2018 because I've met so many wonderful people in my life. I love meeting new people, having conversations, learning their history and sharing their story. If you want to support and you enjoyed the podcast, it would mean the world to me if you could follow, rate five stars and leave a positive review on Apple podcast. If you were someone who listens on Spotify, please follow and rate five stars on there as well. If you found value in the episode, took something away from the conversation and appreciated the insight chances are there is someone out there who may as well, so I appreciate it. When you share, you can text episode to a friend and tag me on social media. Let me know what you're able to take away. Thank you so much for spending time with me today. And finally, remember vision, relate, develop, take care everyone, foster out.
